tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post8559984954472104678..comments2023-07-31T01:11:16.619+10:00Comments on Being in Lieu: We have art in order not to die from the truthJAAChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17069803445911906934noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-54042165463099856342015-10-16T00:45:17.005+11:002015-10-16T00:45:17.005+11:00Great discussion! Thank you all.Great discussion! Thank you all.Kathryn (KL) Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01801435890997786332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-27359181973102943072015-10-16T00:44:45.580+11:002015-10-16T00:44:45.580+11:00Great discussion! Thank you all.Great discussion! Thank you all.Kathryn (KL) Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01801435890997786332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-3256760000605753352015-08-16T14:33:05.855+10:002015-08-16T14:33:05.855+10:00Thank you too, Annette. I'm so glad you've...Thank you too, Annette. I'm so glad you've brought his voice to this discussion.<br /><br />jJAAChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17069803445911906934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-55572469949660910992015-08-15T02:47:21.764+10:002015-08-15T02:47:21.764+10:00As my husband, a philosopher, lay dying in the ICU...As my husband, a philosopher, lay dying in the ICU, with tubes in every orifice, I whispered in his ear, "Who said 'We have art in order not to die of the truth'"? He took a pen and pad and wrote "Nietzche". That was his next to last communication. (His last:" Tell George to fix the roof")<br />Thank you for this stimulating exchange. It feels like his spirit is still alive.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02943083387697838713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-88701916710070612052015-03-07T07:32:54.413+11:002015-03-07T07:32:54.413+11:00So crazy, and so not at all but entirely apt, to h...So crazy, and so not at all but entirely apt, to have this random insertion of 'professional voice overs' as part of this conversation about quoting Nietzsche. JAAChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17069803445911906934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-82094744020334874712015-03-07T03:02:47.989+11:002015-03-07T03:02:47.989+11:00thanks for the direct german and the camus french,...thanks for the direct german and the camus french, Death Zen! just to note what I found in wikipedia, it should all be taken with a large grain of salt: "Der Wille zur Macht (1888) is an anthology of material from Nietzsche's notebooks of the 1880s, edited by his friend Peter Gast, supervised by his sister Elisabeth Nietzsche, and misrepresented by her as his unpublished magnum opus. All but 16 of its 1067 fragments can be traced to source texts in the historical-critical edition of Nietzsche's writings, Kritische Gesamtausgabe: Werke, though 204 of the 1067 sections involve patching together paragraphs not originally juxtaposed by Nietzsche, or dividing continuous passages into multiple "aphorisms" and re-arranging their order, and much of the text has been lightly edited to correct punctuation errors. Because of its misrepresentation of Nietzsche's private notes as an all but finished magnum opus, it has been called a "historic forgery"."<br />Nonetheless, I too hope to use the quote (after also being struck by it in the Tartt novel) for my own purposes (art call on genomic integrity)! :)<br />rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18372343770794015771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-9530154138735094502015-01-31T22:00:57.954+11:002015-01-31T22:00:57.954+11:00Wow is just the simple word that may explain that ...Wow is just the simple word that may explain that how much I liked it. It was nicely stuffed with the material I was looking for. It’s great to be here though by chance.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.synapsetalent.com/" rel="nofollow">professional voice overs</a> <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17086551720120046510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-17298920000657102562014-06-13T23:22:08.865+10:002014-06-13T23:22:08.865+10:00Brilliant! Not at all overkill. Thank you so much....Brilliant! Not at all overkill. Thank you so much.<br /><br />jJAAChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17069803445911906934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-48128430462260355172014-06-13T22:24:09.013+10:002014-06-13T22:24:09.013+10:00It's maddening the way the web has made the so...It's maddening the way the web has made the sourcing of quotations so much more difficult. Whether they're totally mangled, ridiculously misattributed, entirely fabricated, or reduced to "lite" versions, f'd-up quotations are spreading like MRSAs and they're killing off the good ones at the rate of, oh, a thousand a day. :)<br /><br />Anyway, I was once hired for a research task that required me to look into the same sentence of Nietzsche's that prompted your search. The following info from my notes might be of interest:<br /><br />—————————<br />"We have art in order not to die from the truth" appears in no published English translation of <i>The Will to Power</i> (from the <i>Nachlass</i>), in which Nietzsche wrote, « Wir haben die <i>Kunst</i>, damit wir <i>nicht an der Wahrheit zugrunde gehen</i>. » (Italics are Nietzsche's.) <br /><br />In the first English translation, Ludovici rendered that as, "Art is with us in order that we may not perish through truth." Walter Kaufmann's final revision of R.J. Hollingdale's translation of Book III produced the version that's almost always cited by, shall we say, serious writers: "We possess <i>art</i> lest we <i>perish of the truth</i>." (Italics are Kaufmann's.)<br /><br />It's likely that the lite version, "We have art in order not to die from the truth," came directly from <i>Le mythe de Sisyphe</i>, in which Camus wrote: « L'art et rien que l'art, dit Nietzsche, nous avons l'art pour ne point mourir de la vérité. » Justin O'Brien (accurately) rendered it in English as, “'Art and nothing but art,' said Nietzsche; 'we have art in order not to die of the truth.'" <br /><br />"We have art in order not to die of the truth" is all over the place in popular fiction, self-help books, etc., and of course generates nearly 10x as many Google hits as English translations from <i>The Will to Power</i>.<br /><br />Note that Nietzsche's remarks about the function of art in his earlier essay, "Richard Wagner in Bayreuth," from <i>Unzeitgemäße Betrachtungen</i> (<i>Untimely Meditations</i> as translated by Hollingdale, or <i>Unfashionable Observations</i> as translated by Richard T. Gray) may be useful when interpreting his later and much more famous statement.<br /><br />For example, from Gray's <i>Unfashionable Observations</i>, p. 279:<br /><br />"But the greatness and indispensability of art lies precisely in the fact that it arouses the <i>semblance</i> of a more simple world, of an easier solution to the riddles of life. No one who suffers from life can do without this semblance, just as no one can do without sleep. The more difficult our knowledge of the laws of life becomes, the more ardently we desire that semblance of simplification, even if only for brief moments—the greater becomes the tension between the universal knowledge of things and the intellectual-moral capacity of the individual. Art exists <i>so that the bow does not break.</i>" (Italics are Gray's.)<br />—————————<br /><br />There's more, but the above is probably already overkill. ;) Thanks for your wonderful post!<br /><br />P.S. to Anthony: Yes, I prefer the (now-standard) translation by Kaufmann, too, for the reasons you mention. Death Zenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16373723664062526406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-662354893678982752.post-59649883157216795922014-06-11T17:11:25.055+10:002014-06-11T17:11:25.055+10:00Here is jaac ventriloquising Anthony:
Hello,
I e...Here is jaac ventriloquising Anthony:<br /><br />Hello,<br /><br />I enjoyed your post about hunting down a Nietzsche fragment, and tried to post the following comment, but I am never able to successfully comment on Blogspot blogs: <br /><br />The ambiguities of translation. I much prefer the potency of the second translation, the richness of possession against the flatter, subtler 'have', the richness of allusion in 'lest, despite its archaic nature, and all the implication of destruction in 'perish'.<br /><br />Not sure if you are able to add that comment on my behalf. If not, not a problem, wanted anyway to let you know that I really enjoy what you do on being in lieu.<br /><br />Anthony<br />@timesflow<br />timesflowstemmed.com JAAChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17069803445911906934noreply@blogger.com